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 Post subject: St-Jean Baptiste day no longer exist in Québec anyway!!!
PostPosted: Mon Nov 22, 2004 7:22 pm 
The point of the reference to Dollard DesOrmeaux was that St-Jean Baptiste day official name in Québec is "la fête nationale du Québec". The government and fewer and fewer Québecois use the name St-Jean Baptiste day for the Holiday. (Only Francophone outside Quebec like ourselves, still refer to it as la St-Jean.

As for your FLQ reference you have to be carefull with your referencing cuase it can make you look... daft!! Whether we like the seperatist or not (its a big not for my part, Gee Adam I wonder where you stand :) , we have to recognise that Québec's sovereignist and seperatiste movement has rejected the use of violence as a means to independence. FLQ is synomous with violence and, besides that its been off the scene for more than 30 years. Try using PQ in its place, it will get the point you wanted accross. On a historical note, The FLQ has to be taken inthe socio-political context of the time. Try reading some books on the Italian Red Brigades, or 'les 68' in France for context. Then a good read would be ... a hell Justin Trudeau voted for it last year on Canada reads on the CBC... I can't remeber and I have to get back to studying...

Later
LP


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Nov 22, 2004 7:37 pm 
KrissKross day interview was priceless and soooo funny!

too much 4 much!!! 8)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Nov 22, 2004 9:58 pm 
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hmmmm, I liked this googled web defintion of Nation: Imagined Community or Group Fantasy. Anyway, I'm wading into the middle here ... I'm confused by both of you "dissing" Southern Ontario like the entire place is full of anti-french bigots or? Is that the gist or? I like to think I've lived over most of Ontario with the exception of Northern Ontario. I've lived and worked in Southern Ontario and Ottawa. I'll agree that the french get little respect West of Cornwall, nahhhh, that's not right, I think it's not a lack of respect, that's the wrong term, it's that it's a complete non-issue entirely and to be sure no-one really understands it since it's a non-issue. Being on both sides of that fence I've tried to explain to some of my francophone friends why it makes no sense for anyone to speak french west of Cornwall but I get the argument that we're a founding people and should be able to converse anywhere in Canada in French. I used to try to explain the language policies of Ottawa when I returned to Southern Ontario and got looks of utter confusion,"really? You're kidding right?".

Anyway, jumbled thoughts perhaps but I wanna work some points in ...

Canada's First Nations People are a Nation? Not historically but they've politicized into such a group over the past 30 years. Perhaps out of neccessity of rights. And Canada wouldn't own the rights to a First Nations group would they anyway? Canada is just an artificial boundary.

It would make more sense, and hence it happens, that people speak German and take German in school in Kitchener-Waterloo .... Hamilton and nearby, Italian ... these are the founding peoples of these areas. Much of the West was once Ukranian but less so now.

I think nationalism is quite dangerous. It's reared it's ugly head in many parts of the world in civil wars. I dare say it's almost as dangerous as religion but then nationalism becomes it's own religion in most instances.

I gotta work early, I'll think about it so more later ...

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Nov 23, 2004 12:25 am 
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Quote:
Yeah I don't have time to go into every item of "systemic" or "individual" discrimination against Franco-Ontarian and other francophone minorities accross Canada. I'll save the countless a front here alone in Ottawa for later over a beer if your interested. Just with Ottawa let alone the rest of Ontario or Canada will take a few hours. If your interested in the subject I have plenty of book you can read. I will say the following... and i used to think it was a blessing but not I'm not so sure but...
Gah! You know I don't drink. But yes we can discuss such things at length while you drink get into an impaired state which more closely resembles my normal one...

Quote:
your name is Adam Smith (left out your real name to protect your identity),
While I appreciate the attempt to hide my name it's not hard to find with a quick whois search. Plus I've met everyone who's posted in this thread. They all know I'm a Gardner. So yeah. Your point is well made. I can't see the world like you can. But the opposite is true. While we live in an English city for the most part (especially the west siade which has been affectionately refered to as a diseased limb of Ottawa) I have had heavy interaction with the French part of it in my days growing up as I did. When I was in 1st grade I was put in the special course with all the kids who sucked at French through no merit of my own. They did so only because my name was Gardner. The teacher for that thing quickly noticed and put me back into the general population. Of course my 1st grade teacher had other issues with me much too much to get into here. Ask me about it sometime if you want to hear a sad story... or ask my Mom she tells it better and remembers it more what with me being 6.

Oh well have I ever told you how poorly Sonya is treated by the admin staff at Ottawa U? She's sitting there asking for something. The lady starts talking in French. She's just sitting there dumbfounded "I don't know what she's saying?". Yeah... well she could tell you better.

Anyway there's a certain polorisation between some bad people around everywhere but I really don't think it's as bad as you make it out to be.

Quote:
A) you obvious spent too much time talking with Matthew Keen Back in his Reform party days,
Haha. Hey you're the one who was most on board with it in the day. I didn't know much of anything about politics at the time. I had voted Natural Law in my only Federal Election at that point... though I did attend that Preston Manning lecture that time and drew him Fing a goat...

Quote:
B) the prodominantly English Canadian mainland provinces due to their common language culture and History, do collectively form another nation(i.e. English-Canada), but in themselves none is significantly different from the other to meet the criteria set up by either Anthropologist or Political Scientist,
Well I certainly don't live in English Canada. I don't want to live in a Canada without Pigale's...

Quote:
C) their is one exception being Newfoundland-Labrador which meet the definition of a nation its long isolated history, specific dialect and the fact that a national identity and culture was present well before they join Canada in 1949.
Wee! You know my Dad wasn't born Canadian by that logic? He was born in a now non existant country. I think that's cool.

Quote:
That being said trying picking up a few books on any of these issues.
Hm... do the people talk in bubbles? Ha. Yeah would like to know more about Canadian history and stuff. Maybe I will someday.

Quote:
The government and fewer and fewer Québecois use the name St-Jean Baptiste day for the Holiday. (Only Francophone outside Quebec like ourselves, still refer to it as la St-Jean.
Really? Had no idea it had gotten so out of control. Hehe. People in Hull and Gatineau call it that but they're pretty close to us.

Okay you know I was kidding with the FLQ thing. I wouldn't ever say PQ for you. Those guys piss me off too. I'm not in the slightest way anti Quebec. Quite the opposite I love the Province and it's because of that I think they should remain a part of this great country.

Quote:
I'm confused by both of you "dissing" Southern Ontario like the entire place is full of anti-french bigots or? Is that the gist or?
I have spent litte time in southern Ontario. Just trying to razz those backwards neighbours of ours. I have known none to be in any way anti French.

Quote:
I think nationalism is quite dangerous. It's reared it's ugly head in many parts of the world in civil wars.
It seems to start out as a way to have people bond together but in the end is just a reason for people to become more seperated. So yeah nothing good can come from such an attitude. I get wanted to preserve culture and junk like that but I'm not seeing the French Canadian culture going anywhere. Tourtiere isn't going anywhere!

Glad you liked the Kris Kross Louis. Can you believe they were playing Jump on Hot 89.9 today! Today as in 2004!

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Nov 23, 2004 11:29 am 
Adam what I can't believe is that they don't play KrisKross everyday!!!
The guys at the office died when they heard. They've been e-mailing it to friends so you may get a bit more traffic on your site.

Felt bad hearing your story as a kid... that sucks big... I feel for you man...

Love you man. Can you feel the love!!! :lol:

LP


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 Post subject: Opus cat
PostPosted: Tue Nov 23, 2004 12:25 pm 
Hello OPUS CAT:

I’m glad to get your input. First off your right not all southern Ontarians are bigots or intolerant towards French Canadians. In my years at University I would have to say the split was 30:30:30. 30% were Francophile and thought it was okay to be frenc-Canadianl, 30% apathetic(couldn't give a rats ass), but the remaining 30% were so negative, ignorant, hurtfull, and intolorant that it really left a sour tastes in my mouth.

I have met many Ukrainians-Canadians and their contribution to Canada cannot, and should not be ignored. They settled the west, leaving a history of serfdom in a less than tolerant Russian Empire, and later USSR, to find freedom and free land in western Canada. That being said they settled in a country who’s laws and government had already been established. They may have helped settled and establish communities, towns and cities but this was within an already existing political framework set up by first the French and then the British. You see founding nation refers to the nations that built the Canadian state as it is now. At least in the eyes of the Laurendeau/Dunton commission on Bilingualism and Biculturalism of the Pearson era.

You’re right to be weary of nationalism. Nationalism can get out of hand if it becomes intolerant. When it is no longer celebration of a cultural identity, but rather a means to put another group down than one should be VERY WORRIED. This is dangerous in all its forms and it is one of the things that worries me about Canada’s anti-Americanism. A lot of that is the ugly side of Canadian nationalism. You can disagree with their elected official, but as much as we think we know a lot about/and understand Americans we really don’t have that much of a clue. Therefore People like Caroline Parrish and others should be careful about making broad all encompassing statement to their regards.

You can ask Adam, I wasn’t ‘monsieur ardent francophone’ back in high school. My University experience made me realise just how much my French-Canadian identity and culture was important to me and I wanted to help promote it to my English-Canadian friends as a means for us to better understand each other. In so doing I also took a greater interest in English Canadian culture. I listen to more CBC than is probably healthy. But I digress…

Aboriginal nations. There isn’t one there are many. And frankly we need to return to the approach we had back in the 17th and 18th century when we saw them as equals, partners with which we develop economic, socio-cultural and military links. In the 19th and 20th century, loaded with the myth of the 'White Man’s Burden' we set out to assimilate the native peoples and committed cultural genocide. In the past decade there were some significant steps taken to returning to our past relationship as partners. These were the Nishka treaty in BC and “La paix des Braves” in Québec. Both these treaties went a long way in improving the economic, social, and political freedom and power for those peoples over their lands and they should be used as a blueprint in future negotiation. We have to right the wrongs of our ancestors. Period…No and if but about it!!!

That being said I have to go get lunch before my break ends.

Later,
LP


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Nov 23, 2004 6:33 pm 
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Where do you work? Agriculture? I've been getting some mad traffic from Indian and Northern Affairs which I can't account for. Anyway my site gets a lot of traffic to the point where you could sent it to 100 people and it wouldn't really do anything. Plus I have upgraded my plan lately to handle 10x the traffic so it's all good.

Quote:
# Hits Files KBytes Visits Hostname
1 7022 3.84% 5961 4.01% 89256 3.79% 129 1.86% cpe000ea65f49e9-cm0011ae02a1f8.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com
2 3518 1.92% 2703 1.82% 41556 1.76% 4 0.06% 66-215-207-38.riv-eres.charterpipeline.net
3 2069 1.13% 960 0.65% 16017 0.68% 13 0.19% wc08.wlfdle.rnc.net.cable.rogers.com
4 1774 0.97% 1027 0.69% 14602 0.62% 3 0.04% cpe0050ba2306bc-cm00080d97b640.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com
5 1737 0.95% 1643 1.10% 60240 2.56% 76 1.10% 207.46.98.62
6 1504 0.82% 996 0.67% 17983 0.76% 56 0.81% gate4hq.rcmp-grc.gc.ca
7 1501 0.82% 1501 1.01% 20389 0.87% 1 0.01% ool-44c2567e.dyn.optonline.net
8 1449 0.79% 1417 0.95% 69515 2.95% 17 0.25% crawl25-public.alexa.com
9 1289 0.70% 1158 0.78% 18773 0.80% 17 0.25% nott-cache-1.server.ntli.net
10 1192 0.65% 1106 0.74% 40968 1.74% 46 0.66% 207.46.98.64
11 1084 0.59% 720 0.48% 13855 0.59% 4 0.06% mail.ainc.gc.ca
12 1073 0.59% 1073 0.72% 14827 0.63% 9 0.13% cache-loh-ab05.proxy.aol.com
13 1061 0.58% 308 0.21% 8768 0.37% 6 0.09% mmcrm20.search.scd.yahoo.com
14 962 0.53% 649 0.44% 10098 0.43% 3 0.04% nexredback-216-168-107-178.nexicom.net
15 944 0.52% 891 0.60% 11690 0.50% 2 0.03% wiley-243-6054.roadrunner.nf.net
16 906 0.50% 906 0.61% 14527 0.62% 2 0.03% dhcp0120.sfr.resnet.group.upenn.edu
17 898 0.49% 553 0.37% 14264 0.61% 2 0.03% cpe0002e31585b1-cm000a739b711e.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com
18 862 0.47% 670 0.45% 9200 0.39% 2 0.03% host2.chesco.net
19 826 0.45% 769 0.52% 19964 0.85% 2 0.03% mail.inac-ainc.gc.ca
20 825 0.45% 615 0.41% 19655 0.83% 2 0.03% cpe00d0094edf36-cm000f212fabeb.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com


Quote:
In my years at University I would have to say the split was 30:30:30. 30% were Francophile and thought it was okay to be frenc-Canadianl, 30% apathetic(couldn't give a rats ass), but the remaining 30% were so negative, ignorant, hurtfull, and intolorant that it really left a sour tastes in my mouth.
Um... that's 90% total.

Quote:
This is dangerous in all its forms and it is one of the things that worries me about Canada’s anti-Americanism. A lot of that is the ugly side of Canadian nationalism. You can disagree with their elected official, but as much as we think we know a lot about/and understand Americans we really don’t have that much of a clue. Therefore People like Caroline Parrish and others should be careful about making broad all encompassing statement to their regards.
I don't disagree with their elected official. I disagree with the majority of them. And while there are many of them, even some of that stupid majority, I have known to be good people that doesn't mean I don't think there's a fundamental problem with the country. It's not like I'm trying to assassinate him when he comes to town next Tuesday and Wednesday for a two day visit... I'm just not going to hide the fact that I think he's a horrible man and that the country is stupid to have elected him.

Quote:
You can ask Adam, I wasn’t ‘monsieur ardent francophone’ back in high school.
Well I don't know... you talked your fair share of French when there was a girl to impress...

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 Post subject: Re: Opus cat
PostPosted: Wed Nov 24, 2004 11:20 am 
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LP wrote:
but the remaining 30% were so negative, ignorant, hurtfull, and intolorant that it really left a sour tastes in my mouth.


I think 30% of people are just negative, ignorant, and hurtful by nature no matter how you slice it. Maybe that's a little high but what I'm getting at is if it wasn't because of reason a, they'd find reason b.

While there's no excuse for the way you were treated by a percentage of the population., I do think there are many folks who have just had enough of Quebec whining about how they don't get enough money or control or both while attempting to hold the rest of Canada hostage. This was becoming more evident during the Meech Lake debacle and the never ending referendums of my time. For many, the selling of "Special Status" meant elitism and not language and culture protection. Don't forget the same folks we mentioned earlier like the germanic and italian and ukrainian populations holding this up and thinking well, what about protecting us too? Official Blilingualism is a huge issue for many others. To many, me included, official bilingualism is for the rest of the country while Quebec's official language is French alone and let's not talk about the sign law. I would wager these dychotomies are the largest source of frustration with Quebecer's.

LP wrote:
You can ask Adam, I wasn’t ‘monsieur ardent francophone’ back in high school.

From some of your postings it does appear that there might be the smallest chip on your shoulder there, I could be wrong since posting in Adam's forum and the actual person are different kettles of fish. Obviously I don't know you from Adam (hee-hee?) but I'd be happy to buy that first pitcher of beer and since Adam doesn't drink, he can drive hee-haw.


LP wrote:
Aboriginal nations. There isn’t one there are many. And frankly we need to return to the approach we had back in the 17th and 18th century when we saw them as equals, partners with which we develop economic, socio-cultural and military links. In the 19th and 20th century, loaded with the myth of the 'White Man’s Burden' we set out to assimilate the native peoples and committed cultural genocide. In the past decade there were some significant steps taken to returning to our past relationship as partners. These were the Nishka treaty in BC and “La paix des Braves” in Québec. Both these treaties went a long way in improving the economic, social, and political freedom and power for those peoples over their lands and they should be used as a blueprint in future negotiation. We have to right the wrongs of our ancestors. Period…No and if but about it!!!


I'll differ on this one and start to sound like a nutty conservative Republican which Adam'll luv eh. I doubt that the Indian population were totally seen as equals by too many folks coming to North America. There's obviously no serious way to know for sure but I doubt it. Europeans conquered North America, so be it. I for one think it's way past the point where we need to apologize and it's time to get on with the business of living. I'm curious what you'd have us do though and I'm open to suggestions.

So here's some figures, the department of Indian and Northern Affairs is a large deparment. The only total funding I could find was from 1995-1996 of over 5 billion a year. According to this site http://www.canadianencyclopedia.ca/Prin ... d=A0005648
The First Nations funding of that budget is 3.4 BILLION dollars. According the last census I could find for 2003 approx 740,000 people identified themselves as Native. So let's make it simplier, assuming the departments budget hasn't shrunk since 1996 and I can say that with almost complete confidence and let's assume 1 million people are in fact natives and some didn't bother with the census. That means I'll almost certainly be underestimating that each and every native in Canada is funded on a per person basis of $34,000 a year from this source alone. I think it's wayyyy past time this hole be plugged and we say okay, look ... we're sorry about taking over the country 100 years ago but it's time to get in line with the rest of Canadians. Yes, it's time you paid some sales tax, sorry , that's a must too.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 24, 2004 11:05 pm 
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I'll agree with this aboriginal stuff. I'm a big believer in everyone being born equal. So some people fought a while ago and are upset/repent it. That's nice but when the people involved are all dead I really don't see why the hell that matters. Human is human.

By this same logic people need to stop being so damned pissed off about English vs. French wars. Let's move on already. No one you want to be mad at is still alive!

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 13, 2004 11:02 pm 
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I agree pizza should be eaten with the hands but I think youre overreacting with all the "what a terrible world we live in" stuff. its just a etiquitte thing; youre expected to do the same thing as everyone else all the time. I dont know, maybe that says something about society?

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Dec 13, 2004 11:08 pm 
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Yep. Keep people from acting like animals to some extent and the down side if F&K pizza eaters.

As far as my melodramatics comments go... it's a beef I'm supposed to be overly pissed about silly things.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 24, 2005 8:28 pm 
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I'm revisiting this beef on it's october anniversary. I agree that F&K pizza eaters are imbeciles. Unless the piece of pizza is so large and unwieldy that it makes one look the fool when trying to eat it with one's hands. Harumph.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 24, 2005 8:55 pm 
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I had the worst pizza in a long time .... at Gabriels of all places ... Saturday. The crust was gooey, the cheese slide off in one direction ... just awful.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Oct 24, 2005 11:33 pm 
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IDE wrote:
I'm revisiting this beef on it's october anniversary. I agree that F&K pizza eaters are imbeciles. Unless the piece of pizza is so large and unwieldy that it makes one look the fool when trying to eat it with one's hands. Harumph.
I have never had such a large piece!

Quote:
I had the worst pizza in a long time .... at Gabriels of all places ... Saturday. The crust was gooey, the cheese slide off in one direction ... just awful.
Wow. Surprising. Which Gabriel's was it? And have you had it there before?

Had some Newport Pizza on Friday. Wasn't horrible. I think I like the Newport more than Grillman's.

Also this place in Ptown "The Pizza Factory" makes an awesome pizza but don't get the ceaser salad which is excessively garlicey.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 25, 2005 12:03 pm 
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opuscat wrote:
I had the worst pizza in a long time .... at Gabriels of all places ... Saturday. The crust was gooey, the cheese slide off in one direction ... just awful.


You had bad pizza at a mediocre pizza place?

This is not shocking to me.

PS I'm a proud fork and knife pizza eater. I judge you savages as you would someone who eats their pizza without the use of their hands.

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