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PostPosted: Mon May 19, 2003 1:06 am 
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Koopa Troopa
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Hello. My name is yumiko, and i'm a visitor from your page. I just visited one of your pages here: http://www.adamrulz.com/beef/dec2001.html and I know it's an extremely *old* "beef", but I would just like to clarify something for you, that kind of annoyed me. I hope I don't offend you. First off in the article, you say

"You see they're dudes and they turn into chicks."

Quite the opposite, actually. They are sailor senshi, and all senshi must be female. In the original manga, they were women, and stayed women. In the anime, they were STILL originally women, and only disquised themselves as men. This was only for the anime, and was the directors choice, not takeuchi naoko's. She was quite peeved about it, actually.

"So he's all trying to get into Usagi's pants during his stay on Earth. "

Seiya has a crush on usagi and he grows to love her, but he doesn't want to "get into her pants." Even so, since seiyas true form is a woman, I don't see how that would work.

Anyways, I was happy to see you thiught chibiusa was a cool character and didnt just hate her like everyone else seems to. Oh, I am am sailormoon fan too, btw, and I enjoyed reading your articles. =)

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PostPosted: Mon May 19, 2003 9:18 am 
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King Koopa
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Best user name ever. Welcome to the board.

Anyway I'm not going to argue with you because I agree with you. They were probably born female and had that state on their home planet using the male forms only during their time on earth. That being said they still do physically transform into males during most of their time on earth. So yeah they are technically women who turn into men but still from a certain point of view men who turn or more specifically turn back into women. I mean it really just boils down to semantics like for example Usagi is by birth and normally Usagi but when she fights she turns into Sailor Moon. Someone who knows her only as Sailor Moon might be shocked to learn that "she turns into the normal girl Usagi" which while not the best way of putting it isn't really false.

So yeah you're right maybe I should have worded it differently but it's not that I didn't actually know what was going on here.

About the getting into her pants well there's a bit of humour meant by that. Still I think he/she or whatever would want to, while in male form, take his piece and put it in her spot. I mean if I were able to transform into a woman and there was a guy I was really hot for I'd rather do him as a woman then take it in the chute. That being said even if they did get into some girl on girl then the pants aren't off limits in a purely lesbian relationship. I can get really graphic about that if you want but I don't think that's necessary.

The argument always comes up about whether the attraction Seiya has for Usagi is lesbian in nature or not. One could argue a few things. One is, like I think you're leaning towards, that it's just not a sexually charged attraction. Then there's the idea that Seiya's mind is completely female and that if she likes Usagi it's because she's s lesbian. Then there's the idea that when in male form Seiya could be subject to the same desires that a male would have. I mean if Seiya's transformation to a male is thorough then he could have the same hormonal responses that any other would have. Have you ever seen the show Beast Wars? In that they have these robots that turn into animals but as a side effect of staying in their animal forms they develop certain desires of that animal that they emulate. For example Tigertron spends a lot of time in his beast form and takes another real tiger as his mate. This could be what's going on here with Seiya.

I'm not going to argue either of these possibilities because there's never any real indication that either of them is more likely than another in the show. It's just that by looking at it that way you don't have to make Stars look like a totally child unfriendly show with cross dressing lesbians or whatever like so many haters seem intent on doing.

Anyway I'm reading over your post and you said that they "disguised" themselves as men which is something I really don't agree with if you're insinuating that there is no actual transformation taking place here and I guess everything I said here would go against that idea.

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PostPosted: Mon May 19, 2003 10:31 pm 
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Koopa Troopa
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Hi, thanks for replying.

About seiyas attaction to usagi .. to tell you the truth, I don't think it was lesbian or straight. I think it was just androgynous. Love doesnt always have to be one thing or the other. Sure, seiya in his male form may have been physically attracted to usagi, but most of his love stems from the fact, that he likes the "light" that she has, and that intrigues seiya. He has said before if im not mistaken, that usagi's "light" is very much so like princess kakyuu's.

About the "disqusing" thing; ... well most people tend to anaylze far too deeply into sailormoon so they can find a reason for everything. It's a cartoon, so alot of things can happen without a good reason. I don't know how exactly they changed themselves into women, so I used the word "disquised" for a lack of a better word. We didn't see them change into women the first time, it just happened "behind the scenes". Somethings work better that way.

It is kinda confusing in the anime .. the directors really should have left seiya and the starlights as women, but maybe they felt the "connection" between them and the girls would be better if they had male forms. I don't know.The three lights in their non-female forms strike me as androgynous mostly. Even though they look like guys, thats just how it is to me. They don't have very feminine voices, they use the same voices for both forms. Seiya is my favorite, though. ^^

Oh and, nice icon. I love even stevens .. I don't watch it alot, but louis is hillarious ;D ;D

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PostPosted: Tue May 20, 2003 9:16 am 
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King Koopa
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Well it was pretty cool how they made them fairly androgenous and looking mostly the same as male and female. I think it would have been cool if they never really showed them as being male or female at all but they didn't really go that route what with them showing topless Seiya clearly being male and showing them get breasts in their transformation. Oh well I guess there would have been way more fighting otherwise.

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PostPosted: Wed May 28, 2003 3:43 am 
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Koopa Troopa
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I don't know what your take on this is, but I was told by a 17 year old japanese girl that I was an otaku for liking sailormoon at my age. (i'm 20) The word otaku means someone who is obessive over anime merchandise and has a life that revolves around it (read;unsociable person who is a bit of a nerd and doesnt get out much) which I don't think I am. It kinda offended me, because she said sailormoon was for very young children in japan. However, all types of people all ages in US and other parts of the world like sailormoon .. so, is this girl just being ignorant, or what do you think? I don't think its bad to just like something. :(

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PostPosted: Wed May 28, 2003 8:12 am 
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Well I'm 25 and like it. Although I did start watching the show when I was 17 which, although younger than I am now, is still way older than the target demographic. I knew then just like I know now that it's a show aimed at children and that I'm far outside of the target audience. I don't think it's wrong for me to watch it or anything but I don't try to fool myself into thinking that the show is made for adults. I've always watched a lot of kids shows. When I was a teenager I used to watch a lot of Power Rangers. Right now I watch shows like Even Stevens and Lizzie McGuire and I eat a lot of crap for it. You just have to try to fight off that instinct everyone has to say that a show is actually aimed towards adults when it's not. Pretty much every kids show that is watched by some old people has those people going on about how the creators obvious also aimed this show at an older audience which is bull. You'll hear old Barney fans say stuff like that if you let them. You just shouldn't let them.

A lot of people in the US say that Sailor Moon in Japan has a wider appreciation and that a lot of adults watch it when in reality it's quite the opposite. In Japan they know it's a show for little girls and here in North America a bunch of older guys and girls watch it.

My friend had some exchange students from Japan over and one of them, a 16 year old girl, told me just that. How she was surprised how a lot of older people where into Sailor Moon here while back in Japan it was just a show for little girls. It was a good reality chell because talking to geeks who are in denial about suggested age limits you'd never get that idea. Now I'm not saying there aren't greasy old Otaku's in Japan watching Sailor Moon. It's just they probably don't kid themselves about what they're watching.

So yeah don't be ashamed of what you watch. I never do. Just don't kid yourself about who the real target audience is.

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PostPosted: Wed May 28, 2003 6:26 pm 
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Koopa Troopa
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Well, takeuchi naoko herself is over 20 and collects sailormoon goods. Is she an otaku? she certainly doesn't fit the discription of one, because if she did, she wouldn't be where she is today. I think this proves that "otaku" is just a label that doesnt make sense when applied to everyone. She's a comic artist and a mother for a living, and the word "otaku" suggests someone who is lazy, obbessed and doesnt get out much. She's also one of the most popular artists in japan. Sailormoon is a childrens show, but thats not to say that most of the material doesnt apply to older fans. Such as the romance, and most of the adult themes. Naoko knows she has fans of all ages and from all over the globe, though.

My opinion is, I don't think its wrong to be a kid at heart. Just because i'm 20 and considered an adult, doesn't mean I still can't like cute things. I like hello kitty too, just because shes cute. But I don't obbess over the things .. its not like you are gonna walk into my room and find hello kitty everywhere. :)

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PostPosted: Wed May 28, 2003 6:43 pm 
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King Koopa
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You'll have elements in anything that will appeal to older people just because people are people and that the shows aren't actually made by 5 year olds but I really don't think Sailor Moon, any more than any other children's show, is geared towards an older audience. Because if you ask an older fan of any children's show they will say just like you did that some elements are obviously geared towards older fans.

Anyway Naoko may be a fan herself but she did write it after all. I'd say that's a bit of a special case. Would she actually read the book if she didn't write it herself? Maybe. Maybe not. If she was 8 she would be much more likely to though.

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PostPosted: Wed May 28, 2003 8:22 pm 
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Koopa Troopa
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"Anyway Naoko may be a fan herself but she did write it after all. I'd say that's a bit of a special case. Would she actually read the book if she didn't write it herself? Maybe. Maybe not. If she was 8 she would be much more likely to though."

lol .. I think thats kinda a double standard to say that naoko is a "special case." Naoko got into writing manga at a young age. I don't know the exact age, but I think it was somewhere around high school or college. She was inspired by other anime and manga, and was obviously interested in it, which lead to writing sailor V and her other stories.

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PostPosted: Wed May 28, 2003 9:24 pm 
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King Koopa
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Yeah well maybe she would have been really into it. I mean both of us are.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 07, 2003 11:06 pm 
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hehe. I'm japanese, and the term is otakki. I watched Sailor Moon when I was, like 10! And, I was pretty shocked to see an older age audience watching it in America


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 08, 2003 7:36 am 
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King Koopa
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Yeah... I don't believe you.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 08, 2003 9:49 pm 
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Koopa Troopa
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alot of people like cartoons (especially anime) that are originally made for younger kids.

Even hitoshi doi says it on his sailormoon page (which is half in japanese but mostly in english.)

http://www.tcp.com/doi/smoon/index.html

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 09, 2003 3:31 am 
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aDam wrote:
Yeah... I don't believe you.

mum's japanese. dad's somewhere out there. stepdads aussie. what else?


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 09, 2003 11:06 am 
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King Koopa
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It's not so much that it's not possible as I don't believe you.

Anyway I love Hitoshi Doi's site. It's the only place to go for good Sailor Moon info.

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